I've been having a few enquires following the Red Driving School TV Advert article trying to find out how much the current Red Driving school franchise costs.
Unfortunately I don't know how much the franchise fee costs, and the Go Red website doesn't give too much information out about costs or benefits/features of having a franchise with the Red Driving School or what one gets as a Red driving school instructor.
About 5 months ago, I was at the Mill Driving Test centre, and was speaking to one of the instructors as we normally do while our pupils were out with the examiners during the driving test, and this instructor was with the Red Driving School and mentioned the weekly franchise fee was around £300, this included the car as well as pupil introductions, and that the fee was payable irrespective of the number of pupils introduced to the instructor by the school or number of red driving lessons given, bearing in mind the fee you can charge for tuition depends on the area of the country you are operating from, while your franchise fees are fixed.
The instructor was a potential driving instructor (PDI) on a pink badge, and did mention that not enough work was being supplied (something not exclusive to the Red Driving School I must admit) and was thinking of changing franchises an option not very easy for someone who hasn't passed the part 3 adi examination.
If there are any Red driving instructors willing to share the benefits and cost of being with the driving school, please do feel free to add comments to this post, no registration is required, and you can leave anonymous posts if you like.
If you have successfully completed the steps to becoming a driving instructor and are looking to take on a Red Driving School franchise, then my advice would be make sure you read the fine print in the contract, and if possible speak to existing holders of the Red Driving School franchise.
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118 comments:
I am at the moment with a driving school but want to get out of my Franchise Contract.
I need advice!!
My Franchise is £100 per week for full-time working (more than 15 hours teaching time) with Safedrive Driving School in Derbyshire.
If you have a franchise and want to leave, there are a few things to consider.
1. You need to give the required notice to the driing school franchise operator.
2. You need an alternative way of getting pupils, this is very important as your success will depend on your driving school marketing efforts.
3. Do you buy or lease a vehicle for driving tuition.
I looked at Red Driving School, met with an area manager and have a copy of the contract. I would not sign it if they were the only school on the face of the planet. Very iffy and loaded towards Red. Good luck to anyone who has gone with them
Hi my name is Richard and I was about to start the driving instructor course, but looking at the comments I have decided not to. Has anybody actually made money in the industry as I'd love to hear from them.
Richard, there are many driving instructors making a decent living teaching learner drivers, the most important thing is you need to realise this is not a job, but a business, and therefore before you get involved you should ask yourself all the questions a potential business startup would ask.
Start up costs, how long it takes to become profitable, marketing, what the competition is like and how to get your share of the market, what your expected turn over is going to be.
The various TV and Newspaper ads just entice you to take up training with one picture in mind earning £30,000 a year or more.
It takes more than sticking a driving school sign on top of a car to make it in this industry, especially these days of credit crunch.
Besides all that, what sane person would see the TV adverts and decide that they wanted to take driving lessons with an instructor who has almost certainly only just qualified and has almost certainly just gone with Red because that's the one they saw on the telly? I assumed that the driving school cars would be branded with a different name, as "Red" have been tainted by "Useless at normal jobs? Have no interest in teaching driving and just want something you can fit around childcare?" type adverts. The adverts are also seriously misleading IMO, so students are likely to get a demoralised instructor who thought they were going to get 30 grand a year for doing a couple of lessons a morning when the kids were at playgroup.
If I were looking to take driving lessons with a large company, I would probably go with the AA or BSM or similar, whatever the rights or wrongs of that, because the impression they give is of using well-qualified, experienced instructors (no matter what the truth - image matters). Red driving school has an image of using inexperienced instructors, so if you have a franchise contract with Red you might not see as many customers as you could otherwise get.
Hi I have worked for Red driving since 2006 first as a PDI and now as an ADI I find the fee of £150 per week fine and since i had my diary reopened for new pupils yesterday I have received EIGHT new pupils in 24 hrs. So dont believe all the bad press you read
If you think the AA or BSM are the best then think again ,They are both over priced and keep you in the car as long as possible and BSM instructors are mainly trainee,s who have only had 40hrs training with two in the car .
I'm halfway through part three with the AA. A bit disillusioned... If I take a franchise with them when I qualify it'll be £800 a month after 8 weeks!! Don't know what to do or who to go with now...
if you leased a car from robinsons it would cost about 100 pounds a week..... after that you have to find pupils and that means advertising. you will end up paying a lot more than you think if you do it that way..... most new qualified adis have no chance of beating all those other adis to the available clients so failure of your business is a big possibility.
dont knock frnachises. pdis have no experience of the real world of instructing in the early days and just see ££££££s flashing in front of their eyes. it seems a big saving to not pay a franchise 150-200 pounds...... but it is not that big a saving if the end result is no pupils to teach.
I feel like I shouldn't have said all those things in the advert. There was no explanation to me at the time that the small print would be splashed across the screen or that what I was saying could be misleading. I apologise.
My advert has since been replaced, so I hope the new one isn't open to so much confusion.
All the best of luck to everyone in their careers.
Peter
i am a pdi with with instructor college & intend to take a red franchise. As a former ADI I know things have changed a hell of a lot in 30 years...but i would like to talk with a Red ADI in the SG area
a full franchise with red costs £175 a week not £300 as quoted above it includes the car insurance maintenance pupils paperwork accountants fees etc etc there are no fees for intros no fees for call centre etc etc - I know 9 red instructors and ALL diaries are full - I myself am a qualified adi (not with red) and my diary is full - where are all you doom and gloom merchants from - are you running your business right - £175 is not a lot of money for what you get considering what you can earn - not just talking about red but most franchises are £150 and up - now who reccomended the aa and bsm the aa are a rip off and bsm will be sold in the next 18 months they are in deep do do
which is the best driving school to franchise with?? i was going to go with red, but they seem very expensive, any advice
There is no shortage of instructors in fact theres way to many.Do not waste your time and money.The only people who gain from telling you this crap are the trainers.I have been an instructor for 11 years and have worked for Red.Its all a big fat con,sorry.
Red driving schools TV ads pays off big time - according to latest published accounts
In the six months from 1st April to 5th October 2008 Red driving school (i.e. LVG Limited) reports a big improvement in driving instructor training course sales and profits in comparison with the previous published accounts for the 18 month period from 1st October 2006 to 31st March 2008.
The company reported sales of £18.6 million of which 90.8% (i.e. £16.9 million) was earned from selling driving instructor training courses (i.e. courses to become a driving instructor), 5.8% (i.e. £1.1. million) was earned from operating a driving school and the remaining 3.4% was earned from various other enterprises. At £3,500 (£2,978 ex VAT) per course to become a driving instructor this would suggest in this 6 month period April to September 2008 Red driving school advertising sold in the region of 5,667 driving instructor training courses. This compares to about 12,836 driving instructor training courses sold in the previous 18 months (i.e. about 4,278 on a 6 month for 6 month basis). This is potentially an increase of 30% on the previous accounts performance. Profit after tax was also up from £1.5 million (for the previous 18 month period) to £2 million (for just the 6 month period). Despite the increase in driving instructor training courses sold the number of employed trainers dropped from 166 to 131 (i.e. 20% decrease) while the number of sales staff increased to 143. The company now has more people selling then they have doing the actual training.
The Red driving school recruitement advert "You could earn £30,000 a year as a Red driving instructor" has sold over 18,000 driving instructor training courses in the 2 year period covered by these accounts which is totally disproportionate to the size of the driving school (i.e. a few hundred instructors) and its ability to secure the job and earnings promised if a significant number where ever to qualify. Even household brand names such as BSM and the AA can only support 2,000 and 3,000 driving instructors respectively. Over the last 10 years the number of courses sold on the back of this job advert for Red driving school is likely to well exceed 50,000 based on previous accounts! At this rate of recruitment Red driving school should be 10 times bigger than the AA and BSM put together! I wonder how many are deeper in debt as a result of responding to these adverts and how many will now waste what little redundancy money they have on this company?
Clearly the major TV Red driving school advertising is paying off in a big way for the company with increase in driving instructor training course sales and profits. The driving schools sales income remains static at around the same level as the previous published accounts (i.e. about 6% of the total business) suggesting it hasn’t grown but it was noticed that the company has just sold off the whole of its fleet of driving school cars. From now on it would seem anyone joining Red driving school will need to lease a car from another company. This will help protect the Company if there is a down turn in the driving school business as it will not have the problem of having to dispose of any cars in an already depressed car sales marketplace. It also means if the franchise doesnot work out for anyone Red don't get lumbered with a car the instructor will have to take it with him or her.
With all the redundancies as the recession bits the future couldn't be brighter for Red driving school as it sells the dream of a £30k plus car job as a Red driving instructor to the unsuspecting public.
Anyone can obtain a full copy of the LVG Limited’s accounts from: companieshouse.gov.uk then proceed to WebCHeck service to obtain information. There is a small charge of about £5. The instructor training part of Red driving school is also known as the Instructor College.
Thinking of becoming a driving instructor with Red? Don't do it!! You will regret if you do. They can provide you with one year interest-free credit, but don't do it.
Reasons? OK, the Red instructor training cost £3650. Red will offer to arrange a loan for you for the whole amount and you don't have to paid back for one year. They will promise you they can train you within three to five months and you can complete the training and earn money to pay back the loan before the end of the interest-free period, but you will be lucky if you achieve 40% of the course within one year.
Do you think you can train as long as you have time? Forget it! They book one training session at a time, and once you have completed the the season, they will offer you the next one in 4 - 6 weeks time - saying staff are on leave. This will continue until the loan is due.
You borrowed £3650 from the bank (through Red) to pay for the course, isn't it? Now guess how much you will owe the bank if you are not able to pay back within one year. £4000? Wrong! You will be owing the bank twice the amount you borrowed; and by then you will be struggling with the instructor training and the end doesn't seem to becoming near.
Take Red to court? Ummm, no! The contract doesn't say they can train you within 3 months. You read it and agreed to signed it based on the term therein, so they law is not on your side. The sales people at Red will do all to mislead you to sign the course and loan agreement. They will promise you (verbally) that you will be earning money as driving instructor within three to four months. Once you sign the contract and started the course, then you will meet people who will tell you they have started 2 years ago By then you have no option than to continue. When you talk to solicitors, they will tell you you have little chance of winning any court case.
Red Instructor training is a nightmare and fraudulent! Don't sign it!
Look for something else or you will regret it.
Can I get my money back?
If you can remember anything that was said by the sales person or in the literature (that was handed out) which you now know to be untrue and it was an essential fact that you relied on to make the decision to go ahead you can claim your money back for misrepresentation. Indeed if you believed it to be a job with Red, based on their accounts alone, it can be shown they had little intension of delivering the promised job because there is no way they could support 18,000 instructors in their driving school it might be possible to claim misrepresentation on this fact alone. However, the contract you signed might make it clear it is not a job and it is only training that is being offered with no guarantees.
If you entered into the deferred High Interest agreement because you were told by the salesman that you would be qualified within 4-6 months (or something similar) and could therefore pay it back from your earnings as an instructor this would undoubtedly be good grounds for misrepresentation. Especially, if the delay in training was not down to you or was not unusual for students on that course. In other words if the company knows full well that many students take far longer then they quoted this is misrepresentation. Indeed because such a loan results in an immediate high interest penalty almost doubling the course fee you could claim for the whole sum. If you explain to your solicitor how you were tricked into signing the agreement because the salesman told you you would be up and running earning money as a driving instructor before you had to pay the loan back a good case for misrepresentation is established. Similarly, if they claimed there was a shortage of instructors when there is not or quote false figures about the number of ADIs on the register etc.
The Red TV advert is very misleading. It gives the false impression that Red is a highly successful, rapidly expanding driving school that is looking for people to join them as driving instructors on £30,000 per year plus a car. This pretence is continued at subsequent meetings where you are told there is a massive demand for driving instructors and if you buy their training course to become an instructor they will guarantee you a job with Red or another driving school. They make it seem quite plausible that they would train for others as well as their own school as they are not only an incredibly successful driving school they are also the UK’s leading trainer of driving instructors.
The reality is that the company is not a highly successful driving school as it would have you believe trying to cope with an ever increasing demand from the public for Red driving lessons; it is in fact a company that sells instructor training courses as can be seen from the company’s accounts commented on earlier.
As pointed out in the article at the start of this blog the driving instructor job offered by Red (or indeed any driving school) is in fact a franchise opportunity also referred to as a job franchise. Normally before someone buys into a job franchise they check that it is successful business format first. It is also normal for any franchisor (i.e. in this case the driving school) to prove it has a product that the public wants and that its brand name and/or methods are highly desirable. Companies like BSM, AA and LDC do have proven successful job franchises without a doubt and offer instructor training in a way that is measured to ensure they can properly support the people they train and recruit.
Red on the other hand is not a proven product (despite being in operation for 10 years) and was in fact shown to be making a large loss as a driving school when it was amalgamated into LVG limited in 2005 (see below for potted history). However, this loss was dwarfed by its profits on selling courses using the Red job promise. The company is not constrained by having to support the people it recruits because it only promises to place them with the Red franchise or that of another school. In any case by the time it takes the people it recruits to qualify (i.e. between 6 to 18 months) they will realise the fact that Red charges them £140 per week franchise fee (especially as Red do not now even supply the car) is no guarantee of work. If the instructor doesn’t get enough work to pay for the car and the franchise what can he or she do about it? After all he or she wasn’t promised £30,000 per annum only that it was possible.
Because Red spends so much on advertising they offer the least amount of in-car training of any other company per pound spent. They also employ mass production training methods and the combination of these two factors mean few ever qualify in any case. They do offer so-called additional free training (because the standard training is inadequate) but as the person above found out it is dragged out over such a long period often involving different trainers and shared with students at a different level to you that it is of little use.
Potted history of Red driving school (LVG Limited)
In 1993 The Instructor College Ltd (the first name it used) was born and sold courses on the back of a “so-called” guaranteed job with driving schools like BSM or the AA etc. Later in 1994 the company bought Airport Driving School Ltd which was in 1999 renamed to Red Driving School Ltd. This is also when The Instuctor College first started placing Red driving school adverts offering the “so-called” job. A group company called LVG Ltd was also created in 1997 to bring all the operations together. The company later acquired LetsDrive it main competitor when it went into administration in 2004. Unfortunately unlike Red, LetsDrive solely guaranteed a job with LetsDrive and couldn’t later support them in its driving school operation. In 2005 all the companies were then amalgamated into LVG limited and were no longer companies in their own right making it impossible to see exactly how each was performing. Since then its main thrust has been to promote the Red Driving School job promise approach to selling instructor training courses which from its recent accounts can be shown to be very lucrative as indeed it was for LetsDrive until they had to deliver the promised jobs. Red has cleverly learnt how to avoid this problem by being very selective in what it states particularly in the contract.
Many thanks for all the comments. I was really tempted by all the hype, having been made redundant at the end of Dec. I guess I'll just have to keep job hunting!
Fascinating stuff and I've been talking people out of becoming an ADI for years. I've run a driving school with 18 top quality instructors since 2005 and they pay less than £1900 per annum with an open ended "leave on Friday" contract. Many driving schools operate solely for the amount of money they can squeeze out of an ADI or PDI. And on average we train 1 ADI per year simply because we need another instructor.
http://johnfoote.co.uk/aditraining.htm
i am at the moment working in london as an adi for an very established driving school(not aa or bsm) i'm considering working nearer home(chatham). i average roughly 40hrs a week sometimes more in 4 days but pay 15hrs franchise a week plus £80-90 a week petrol.i'm tempted by the red d.s.franchise but would i be guaranteed the hours that are on offer in london. i need advice
I have seen the TV advert for Red driving school I looked on there web site to find out the costs involved in training with red but there is nothing i would be most gratful if someone could let us know the costs of training to be an instructor
Thank you in advance
Hello,
Is this thread still open? I really need some advice! Back in November 2008 I was sucked in by all the adverts and junk mail in the post and ended up arranging a meeting with one of reds sales people. At the time i didnt realise but he spun me every line in the book to get me to sign that contract. Anyway at the time of him wanting the money i went for the 1 year no interst credit option, the application failed in my name due to no credit and he talked me into finding a guarantor, i went away and spoke to my mum about it and tole her everything the rep said, even she thought it was a good idea. Well she offered to be my guarantor and later that week we signed on the dotted line :-/ its now 4 months later my mum has a £3650 loan that is going to need to be paid back, i am unemployed due to being laid off and i still havent even got my CRB check back! Apparently the police have had it for the past 2months! I rin g the CRB evey week but they cant do anything. Im at the point now where i just really want to ring red and cancel it all, but will they do it? or do i have a fight on my hands?
Thank you in advance for any help or advice.
David, I suggest you join the Anti-Red facebook group where you would meet people who are either in similiar shoes or know the answer to your question.
i went to red today for my first discussion, they are very good sales people who make you feel like you stumbled on a gold mine....
I'm fortunate 2 take the initiative to research something before agreeing to it and i can honestly say its a BIG blag...
My advice to anyone is DON'T DO IT! its a scam and a rip off, they doing nothin illegal as no promise's are made on paper, only verbally which holds no real weight!!
its a shame that people had 2 find out the hard way but without them we wouldnt have the chance 2 read on there experiences so i say thank you as you saved me and my family from ruin...?
i politely say F*** RED and look forward to there phone call in the morning to ask why i never returned to my second interview which consisted of a eye test etc! because i will take great enjoyment in telling them they are frauds...!
I've also read that itv are trying to get Red, Bsm, AA etc on watchdog because they are selling these course's wrongly and destroying to many people's lives with debt.
I hope my comments help anyone reading this and fingers crossed, RED themselfs are reading this so i can one again politely say "F*** RED" lol
mary iwas going to do it with the red driving but a friend told me not to he told me to look at what people r saying it a good job i not done it they told me that i can take home alfter all the things is taken out i would take home 2000 a month and have 15 days hoilday which i would not have to pay for the rent of the car they said i could rent a car for 175 a week i gald i look at all the people r saying
Ok ive just stumbled accross this site and I feel compelled to warn anyone who is considering becoming an ADI to think very carefully indeed. I was made redundant from a reasonably well paid job back in 2003 and foolishly got lured onto an Instructor Training Course at £3K. The whole thing is a nightmare. You will not earn £30K a year...... absolutely no chance whatsoever ! It you look at the sales literature they show examples of 'potential earnings' but theses are based upon unachieveable lesson rates , wildly distorted projected overheads etc etc etc. Oh and as the ads on the telly say.... you will no longer need to work a '9 to 5 ' job ....... true enough ! ..... you will be working more like 8 to 8 !! I can elaborate for anyone who would like to know more !
I have just written in detail about this and lost it all, I have been twice to see RED and was taken in fully by them. Thank God I spoke to a friend last night who warned me off them as he said that they only want you to sign up and there is no job at the end.
I am so angry that this con merchant company is operating like this and especially in such a deep recession with so many of us facing or having been made redundant.
I am so very sorry for everyone who has joined them and taken their scam loan. Surely there must be a legal case for such gross misrepresentation and gross deception? I I was a lawer I would definitely be looking into this to take them to the cleaners!
I will be joining the anti-RED group on facebook immediately - Has there been news coverage on what is happening? How about organising some anti-RED flash mobs?
Vigilante groups? Very luckily I was turned down for their scam loan and when asked if a family member could lend me the money I said no. I will be calling Ian Miller, area sales person, 07809 507238, on Monday to tell him everything I have found out and how appalled I am and to ask if he has ever heard of Karma, maybe other people can give him a call?
This needs national exposure and very very quickly to save any more people being taken in by their very genuine sounding recession-proof business initiative, con artists!!!
I've been an ADI for 9 years, I was trained by BSM and have spent 7 years with the AA. I get enough work to keep me happy but only because I work on recommendations from people I taught ages ago or sometimes several members of the same family. A new instructor simply won't have that behind them and even if they are good at the job will not make anything like £30,000 in their early years unless they a) have a miraculous supply of new pupils and b) never go home. The truth is that £30,000 a year is achievable technically but in practice it doesn't happen for most instructors and new instructors probably won't break even. My other thought is that people new to the industry seem to think that qualifying is simply a matter of doing the training and flying through the examinations. The pass rate is ONLY AROUND 30% which means that you probably won't qualify at all and you only get three attempts at the 2nd and 3rd parts of the examinations. If you don't pass then you have to wait 2 YEARS from the date you passed the theory before you can try again - FROM SCRATCH. People should stay away from instructing as a job unless they don't want to do anything else and even then they should talk to a lot of instructors first and ask them to recommend instructor trainers. Don't hand over large amounts of cash up front and certainly NEVER take out a loan to pay for a course that has a 70% chance of leading to nothing.
Thank you so much for sharing that. Such valuable comments that have helped me decide it's not for me. There is so much hype about driving instructing, but actually only from the schools themseves....
Surely people take risks to further themselves don't they?
If this is the mindset of some of the comments on here then they are doomed to failure before they even begin.
I am an ADI, I parted with £3678 for the Red course, it was not easy BUT you only get out of it what you put in.
My franchise fee is £180 a week which is roughly 7 hours work for me, I work 46 hours a week and DID earn over £40K last year, I struggled for the first year but was wise enough to save money to pay for my course while studying, I was taught good business sense and supported well by Red and now into my 3rd year I will again potentially earn over £46K.
Like I said earlier, you only get out of it what you put into it - some people can, some people can't it's as simple as that.
Without sounding rude now, reading some of the comments here, some people do not have the confidence or will to succeed and that is their downfall as rather than taking the bull by the horns what do they do about it?
Moan on a website about how hard done by they feel!
Is the overall pass rate for the ADI examinations around 30% or not?
Do Red or any other instructor training organisation GUARANTEE that they will provide enough work to make £30K?
Do Red offer to refund any part of the course fees if for instance a client doesn't get past the theory or driving tests?
Do Red offer a 'Pay as you go' option on their training packages?
Are clients told that the four week 'cooling off' period begins as soon as the loan agreement is signed even though the criminal records bureau checks will take approximately six weeks?
Has anyone ever failed one of Reds assessment drives or been told by Red that they do not have the skills or personal qualities required to become an ADI?
I don't want to be rude now, but if you have the confidence and you have the will to succeed but you don't have the talent, can you still qualify?
P.S, I thought the tonight show was brill, did anyone else see it?
Quite clearly the last post about confidence and will to succeed is written by a RED salesperson!
All the questions posed by the person before are totally valid, and the answer to them all will be a resounding 'NO' !
18,000 training courses sold in 2 years says it all to me when they now have more sales people than trainers. Steer clear of RED completely.
What will happen next is obvious. Now that Reds cat is out of the bag they will go bust and start up again under a different name. They, and they are not on their own, are exploiting normal people whose only crime is that they are basically honest and believe what they are told. These people want to work and make a success of themselves but then someone comes along and dangles the carrot. The system needs to change and the only people who can change it are the government but they won't lift a finger because Red pay taxes and their clients keep on paying exam fees.
If you are thinking about training as an ADI check out your trainer and not just the company. Are they ORDIT registered? Tap in ORDIT to most search engines and you should find your way to the ORDIT register eventually or try the DSA website. You can also ask your trainer for their last checktest score. Every so often driving instructors get check tested which means a supervising examiner from the DSA will check them out regarding their 'Continued Ability and Fitness to Give Instruction'. They will then be given a slip of paper with their check test grade on it. Grade 1, 2 or 3 is substandard while Grade 4 is about average, Grade 5 is good and Grade 6 is excellent. If the trainer won't show you that check test result or it is Grade 4 or less then draw your own conclusions. Grade 5 or 6 and you should be OK. Most people don't know that you don't have to be anything other than a bog standard Grade 4 ADI to be train instructors.
We always hear on consumer programmes that if something sounds to good to be true, then it probably is. Anyone looking to join the industry must do their own research. There are lots of reasonabley priced ORDIT registered trainers out there. Don't just go to the 1st training establishment you hear about. Hang around your local test centre and talk to ADI's. They will give you a wealth of advice. I enjoy what I do and earn a reasonable living. I went into this industry with my eyes wide open. It seems that a lot of you have regrettabley gone in with your eyes wide shut. Anyone considering joining this industry beware, with everyone watching there pennies the 1st cutback is sometimes driving lessons. Remember, all that glitters is not gold!!!
Well said. We should all be suspicious when something is too good to be true. I don't have any problem at all with someone who knows the facts signing up with a company or independent trainer. I get wound up about companies lying by omission and making unrealistic claims about the courses they sell and the work available after completion. I met one of Reds trainees in my local test centre this week and he seemed to want to do the job rather than chase the £30K. Speaking to him I thought he would make it because he was realistic and switched on. I asked him if Red had mentioned that 7 out of 10 trainees would fail (No they didn't) and also if they had given him the 'pay the loan back out of your first years earnings' line (Yes they had. You have to love the job and be a realist.
A fool and their money are easily parted! Greed Greed Greed.
Hi folks, sorry to be blunt but let’s cut to the chase here.
Ask yourself, what attracted you to RED Instructor Training in the first place. I bet it was the TV adverts selling you a life style with all the trappings of success, right.
For many of you, becoming a driving instructor was not a desire or love of the industry nor was it a passion to play your part in helping to make our roads safer. Teaching people to drive is a vocation, not a career born out of greed and fancy advertising.
When parting with large amounts of money it is your responsibility to ensure you know what you are buying. Do your research.
Here's my advice.
I qualified as an ADI in 1989, that’s twenty years ago. The regulations around driving instructors have changed hell of a lot over those years but the job itself has changed very little.
Red Instructor Training is not a scam! The advertising is a lot of bull shit yes, but not a scam! If you want to spend vast amounts of money training as a driving instructor without doing your research then go ahead.
Life as a driving instructor IS NOT a 'Get Rich Quick' scheme. It’s a hard, steep learning curve during your training period which can take many years in some cases or between 1-2 years for most. Once qualified, it is a long slow process as your business evolves and as you continue leaning. Many PDI’s (Potential Driving Instructors), started along the driving instructor path because when asked they say,
‘I’m a good driver and I like people!’
So what, everyone considers themselves to be a good driver and most people like some people. That isn’t any qualification or reason to want to a driving instructor. Everything you think you know about driving will be stripped away, your eyes will be opened and your ego will be knocked. FACT
Let’s look at a few of the untold facts.
£30'000 per year.
Yep this is achievable. Beware, this is a gross figure. To earn this kind of money you would need to be teaching in the region of 29 hours a week at £20 per hour. Now add your travelling time between lessons, this will average out at around 30 mins per lesson. That takes us up to 43.5 hours per week. We have also got to add around 5 hours per week administration time. Now don't forget that admin time and travel time is unpaid because as a self employed driving instructor you only get paid when you are actually teaching. You will also need to allow about 2 hours per week for car maintenance and cleaning. Ok, so far you are earning £577 per week for 50.5 hours. Easy to do the maths here, that’s £11.43 hourly rate (gross).
Work when you want.
Nope, sorry folks. The nature of the job is such that you will need to teach when your pupils are available. In the vast majority of cases this is going to mean working over 7 days with early starts, late evenings and with the vast majority of your work being weekends and bank holidays. During the day, Monday to Friday, you will find your car parked up a lot of the time.
Recession proof.
Rubbish - If you believe that then you don't deserve to be a driving instructor or indeed to run any business, self employed or not.
When people are short of money for rent, mortgages, food etc driving lessons are not a high priority. Another example, every year on the run up to Christmas you will notice a drop in your booked lessons. Once again, with an expensive time of the year looming, driving lessons are the first to go. While we are on this subject, another consideration is pupil retention. If you are a good driving instructor with the sole purpose of imparting a life skill onto your pupils, you lose them. Your reward for doing a good job is the loss of the pupil because they will have passed their driving test.
These days many driving lessons are sold on a 2 hour basis, great you may think but when say 3 of your pupils pass their driving test in any given week that’s £120 per week gap to fill, add to this an average of say 2 pupils not turning up for their lessons you can easily be looking at £160 drop in your weekly wage.
Expenses.
Remember I suggested your hourly pay may be in the region of £11.43 per hour gross. Let’s now look at the expenses you will incur as a qualified ADI.
If you decide to work for an established driving school once you have qualified you are going to need to take into account a few things.
Franchise fee.
This varies across the country and from school to school. The big boys of the industry will be charging you a weekly franchise fee of between £250 to £350 on average. Let’s do our calculations on the lower figure of £250. Your gross weekly pay has just dropped from £577 to £327 which equals an hourly rate of just £6.47
Fuel.
Fuel costs will be your responsibility and you can expect to be paying in the region of £50 to £70 per week on fuel.
There are many many other expenses you will incur as a driving instructor but please remember that all the earning figures here are gross and do not take into account tax and national insurance.
Moral of the story:
Do Your Research
Don't swallow Bull Shit
Nothing is for nothing
You will need to work many many more hours than 50.5 per week to achieve a £30’000 pa life style!
Unless you view driving instruction as a vocation. Please please don't waste your money!
Hope this helps you decide and saves you heartache.
Andy (Birmingham)
If Red had the balls they would hand out a copy of the above post to every applicant and for that matter so should every major training organisation. The only item in the whole thing that I would query is the line that says it is not a scam. If Red came to me and offered me a franchise I would know what questions to ask because I am a seasoned ADI but these people who do swallow the bullshit believe that when someone says something on national TV then it must at least be legal, decent, honest and true. They (Red)know that the system of trainee licensing is a licence to print money for training organisations and they are thoroughly familiar with the simple fact that most of the people they deal with will not get near a green badge. That is why they want all the money up front (Scam). They know that even though these people won't get near a green badge they must not assess them properly and turn away the useless ones because that will lose income for the company (Scam). They also know that some of these people can ill afford to take out any kind of loan with little hope of any return and yet they sell them the dream anyway (Scam). The fact that the above post gives such an honest and recognisable view of life as an ADI tells me that Red must know the facts too (It's no secret) and yet with an ADI population of 44,000 (An all time high) they continue to foster the illusion that new instructors are urgently needed i.e; 'There are millions of people learning to drive and you could be teaching them'(Scam). Red have the right to make themselves look great and have the right to sell the proposition but if you sold someone a dream that you knew probably wasn't going to materialise then would you sleep well at nights. Red would.
That's so true who has left the comment about Red and scam. How can they sleep at night? Does Watchdog know about this? When I went for the first 'interview' with Red (2 others present), sales pitch more like, I had a lot of questions for the Red person. One I had was that I had read that only 3 people out of 10 who start on the road to their ADI badge actually qualify. He asked me where on earth I had heard that and how wrong I was, he told me 99% of people who start with Red go all the way and get their badge and become instructors. Yes 99%.
He also said that there is so much work with Red and they are crying out for instructors. He told us that the averagetime for qualifying is 16 weeks (!!!!!!!)
and that as a trainee instructor we would be earning £33k. Yes 33k guaranteed. I don't live in London and had not seen the adverts. I saw a advert on a local job vacancy board, Jobs Today, and thought it looked a good opportunity. I didn't have time to look into Red before going to that first meeting - luckily a friend in London had heard of the record numbers being signed up with no chance of getting their badge with Red because no trainers available etc and also the huge SCAM of the financed money up front, being promised a job after 4 months and the money not needed to be paid back for a year when you will have been earning £33k for 8 months, sales, sales, sales, sales... scam scam scam scam....
It’s all down to your interpretation of the word SCAM.
I agree with the commentators in the above two posts 100% but to me a scam is like those things through the post saying you have won a competition you have never entered and that doesn’t even exist.
The ‘RED’ situation is just gutter advertising praying on the vulnerable, easily persuaded element who may be at some sort of crossroads in life or who think driving tuition is easy. They take advantage of the fact that newbie’s to the industry haven’t got a clue and wouldn’t know what questions to ask or how to smell a rat. The assessment days just massage people’s egos by telling them they are the best thing since sliced bread. This company and many others need regulating.
Quote from the DSA’s website:
“If you have complaints about the standard of training you have received from any of the establishments on the register that you cannot settle with the establishment itself, you may write to the DSA ORDIT Team, C/O the Driving Standards Agency, The Axis Building, 112 Upper Parliament Street, Nottingham NG1 6LP.”
Andy (Birmingham)
That's an idea but ORDIT are only interested in the standard of training provided which usually boils down to one persons word against anothers. All the trainer has to say in their defence is that the trainee didn't put the work in or is thick or whatever. Anything other than a complaint about training standards is more than likely a civil dispute and ORDIT would be plain stupid to get involved in anything which might be outside their brief or which could go legal.
I think open letters to the DSA management (Rosemary Thew maybe?) are likely to be of more use but they would need to be from people directly affected and would need to be in large numbers. You or I as ADI's are fully aware of what's going on and can sympathise with those people who are getting screwed over but to put it bluntly, it's got bugger all to do with us.
I would like to hear more about the tricks Red are up to and so if there is anyone out there who has more info on how they operate then feel free to contribute.
April 15th 2009, Wow what an eye opener !! Well i have signed up to RED yes i took all the sales patter in . and signed up to the loan. Good news i passed my Part 1 got 95% but only because i have studied hard. i am realistic regarding the 70% failiure rate but did listen to the more lessons if you need em spiel. i am still waiting to book the first of my 5 lessons and have to say after reading all the posts i am very worried to what i have signed up for ! i gues its up to me to be one of the 30% to pass but looks like its going to be down to me more than RED , will let you know how things progress i signed up in Jan of 2009 passed part 1 on 5th april due to wait for CRB check. WATCH THIS SPACE Kevin from York
Smart move, Kevin from York!
If I was in charge of Red I would find out who was handling your training and MAKE SURE you got the Rolls Royce of training programmes! In fact I would be tempted to slip you a few quid to say how great Red were at regular intervals.
We know that Red keep an eye on these sites so all we need to know now is, can you be bought?
Good luck Kevin. Do you only get 5 lessons?
Want to be an ADI?
Go to a bookshop or computer shop and buy the 'Driving Test Success' disc by a company called Focus. It's exactly the same disc that learner drivers use to train for their theory test but it also contains the ADI question bank and training for the Hazard Perception Test. That disc, plus reading the books detailed in the DSA ADI14 starter pack (available from the DSA for a few quid) should be enough to get you through Part 1.
Then find a local instructor, preferably by recommendation and ask them to give you an honest appraisal of your driving and information on how you can improve to get to Part 2 standard. Go away and practice hard following their advice to the letter. Go back to them for another check and keep doing this until they can find no fault. The actual ADI test routes are available on the internet. If at any point you can't take the criticism of your driving, take your opinion and shove it somewhere warm and moist. Then take Part 2.
While you are taking Parts 1 & 2 read everything you can get about Part 3, the ability to teach part. Go to a specialist trainer chosen again by recommendation (if you can't find one this way then make several visits to your local Driving Test Centre and talk to the instructors there) and work bloody hard, only taking Part 3 when you are told you are ready.
This will not cost you £3,600.00, in fact the first two parts will be fairly inexpensive if you are trainable. If you are going to spend money then spend it on your Part 3 training because this will be the tool of your trade.
Don't pay for any of it with a loan and don't expect to qualify. Have a plan B and read the post by Andy from Birmingham above before you decide to start. Best of luck.
Christine
Thank you all for your comments regarding RED and their devious sales tactics. My husband was considering becoming a driving instructor and gave RED a ring to see what they were offering even though we had never heard of them (we don't watch telly :=)).
We went to the first meeting and listened to their sales pitch and I was quite impressed with how easy and straight forward it all seemed.
After the meeting, the salesman booked my husband in for a driving assessment for the following day.
On the way home from the meeting we were discussing it all and how wonderful it all sounded (we weren't really expecting anything like earning £30k, just a reasonable income would suffice), but I couldn't shift the nagging feeling that it all sounded too easy. Something just didn't sound right. It all seemed too good to be true.
The following morning, the day of the driving assessment, the kind salesman even rang my hubby to make sure he was still coming. How desperate are these people!
Fortunately, hubby said he was still thinking about it all and really needed to be earning money now and not training, and if he forked out money for training and then a real job came along, he would have to leave the training and take the job, so he would have to give the whole thing a miss and consider it some more.
Then I decided to do some research on RED and came across this site.
Thank you all for leaving your posts and comments and advice on here. It has confirmed to us that RED are indeed nothing short of con artists! The type of unscrupulous people who go into old people's homes and sell them expensive lifts, showers and armchairs, with the promise that it will be the best investment they will ever make, and then rob them of their pension for the rest of their lives.
My heart goes out to David M and his mum who have clearly been conned by these scumbags. David I wish you all the luck in the world in either trying to get your money back or passing your test. But according to RED, if you fail your test then you won't be able to be an instructor then RED will have failed to uphold thier side of the deal and you will not have to pay!!
Thank you again everyone for helping us to make a decision NOT to give RED our money and be connned.
Christine
Hi,
I fell into the Red scam and they have changed my life. They couldn’t deliver what they promised me. It is now 1 year since I signed the agreement and the bank has written me to pay back £6839.64 (lump sum) or £189.99 per month till the whole amount is paid off.
I contacted Red back in December 2008 to refund my money, but they see no grounds for refund. I have contacted the Consumer agency and other organisation, and I think this case might end up in the court.
Now I am looking for people who are in a similar situation and who are willing to testify in writing or in the court about all the Red salesman promised during the meeting. If I am able to get people to second me on the ground of misrepresentation, then we may be able to prove that Red have purposely packaged their product to mislead people.
Please write directly to my using my e-mail address mimicafe@googlemail.com.
Cheers
Babs
It may be a good idea to post your message on the other blog about becoming a driving instructor at;
http://www.ukadi.co.uk/2008/06/becoming-driving-instructor-dont-do-it.html
Hi I am currently teaching in Northern Ireland and my business has now taken a very sudden downturn! I am looking to return back to where i used to teach in NW London can anyone advise me on the work situation there as I cant continue here anymore
Hi All
The problem with this industry is that people are mis guided and led to believe that this career is easy money
Well it is not hard work and dedication needs to go into it to be successful.
I my self have a franchised driving school and upon joining all instructors are told as it is my franchise starts at £145 including car .... free training and much much more. Compare that
High franchise companies are making money on the vehicles as many dont give the instructors the support that they need, thus the low pass rate for part 3
My Advice ask the right questions PDIs, and those that wish to become an instructor make sure your cut out for it this job is about being a teacher not 'a driving instructor' go with an Ordit registered company and ask to see certificates.
Hope it helps x
my husband is a driving instructor with red and we cant wait till contract is up. we have had very few pupils and just manage to cover cost of car £175.00 a week and petrol some weeks iv had to use our family tax credit towards the cost. He loves his job as he does it to get better drivers on the roads and to help youngsters to become safe drivers but at the moment his hearts not in it. we only have a few months left so where going to go it alone when contract is up. there is other issues we have with red but to many to explain, if we knew what we know now id have RAN the other way very fast.
Just to update you guys of progress. The Finance Ombudsman Service are in contact with The Instructor College (LVG Ltd) about my case and I hope they can help. I do believe that even though The Instructor College lie to most of us verbally, there should be consequences. They law cannot permit companies to lie to people as long as they lie verbally.
I have also contacted the Trading Standards Agency for London Borough of Harrow and Brent, and they have opened a case to investigate the matter. I argued that The Instructor College are engaged in business malpractices and they use dubious techniques to get innocent people to sign up for their training course. Telling lies to customers is illegal, and Trading Standards Agency will take legal action against the company as soon.
I have pointed out to the Trading Standards Agency that many people have falling victims to the scam and Trading Standards would like anyone who has been miss-sold the training course to write to them explaining the exact circumstances.
Please, could you all write the Trading Standards Agency using the address and reference number provided below? Remember to explain all details of the lies TIC told you before you sign up with them.
Note: Trading Standards Agency are aware that the victims are spread throughout the UK, but they are able to open this case in my name to cover all victims. So please do you best to write them ASAP to highlight your individual dispute with The Instructor College.
Please write to:
Samuel Abdullahi
Trading Standards Agency
London Boroughs of Brent and Harrow
Quality House
249 Willesden Lane
London
NW2 5JH
Reference number: 160666
I have also informed Trading Standards to look the Issue On ITV Tonight Programme. The video is no linger accessible on ITV website, but it is available on UTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnhkyLYbqIY
Please also contact the Financial Ombudsman Service to complain about your problems with The Instructor College. The more people contact the agencies, the better our chances of resolving the issues.
Cheers
there is a blog on gumtree about this. its called tic be awere of it. you should post this there too.
Thanks all, you just saved me 4k!
M
Im with red in sheffield, they did promise a quicker pass, and they really do drag there heels with times, all the above I would mostly agree with. 3 Months in and just started my lessons for part 2. Thi sis a lot slower than they told me at the interview, the 12 months is ticking and the loan will ned to be paid.....
Thank you all for your comments presenting the reality of RED - it has saved my husband taking the offer further. Christine, I could have written your blog - I said everything you said after going to a RED presentation with my husband who was thinking about becoming a driving instructor. Our first question after the slick sales pitch was; "this is too good to be true - what's the catch?" Of course the salesman's answer was as equally slick as his presentation! We also appreciated Andy's blog all about the realities of being a driving instructor. The trouble with sales pitches like Red's, it temps the vulnerable - of which there are many in this 'credit crunch' we are all experiencing to one degree or another. The others at the pitch we attended were people suffering from the loss of income in their current roles, desperate to find something that they perceive will offer them a secure financial future - after all, there will always be new 17 and 18 year old people wanting to learn to drive - a demand for services guaranteed - there's no upper age limit to working as long as you still have your driving licence; and you can't be made redundant!!
Good luck to all who can make being a driving instructor work, but do it Andy's way!!
Im interested to know exactly what was said to people during the sales pitch at reds office.
I read on another website that there are new rules about what they can say to people. They cant just tell you all the good stuff but they have to tell you about the downside as well before you sign the contract or they are lying by omission. does anyone know about the new rules and what were you told at the sales pitch.
Red means danger! If it seems to be too good to be true then it probably is. You will use your cash to make fat cats fatter.
I did some research before deciding to become an ADI. I studied for part 1 myself, probably spent about £30 buying books on ebay. Passed 1st time. For part 2 I took about 6 pay as you go one hour lessons at £20 per hour from a local instructor. I passed 1st time. Part 3, again, I took about 10 hours of lessons from a local school, pay as you go, £20 per hour (one on one of course). I passed 2nd time.
I didn't do a pink licence. As soon as I qualified I set up a website, optimised it well, got some leaflets printed, and the work came rolling in. I am having to turn people away at the moment as I am so busy. Apart from my website I don't advertise. A good instructor shouldn't need to, it's word of mouth.
I'd never make someone else rich by paying for a franchise. I was talking to an instructor in the T/C the other day who works for New Driver. He pays £80 a week (no car, just for the privelege of using their name), and £30 every time they give him a pupil ... but he's only been given 2 pupils in the last 2 months!! Crazy.
I had a recent interview with Red and it was just a sales pitch. None of my questions were answered satisfactorily. We were just 'dazzled' by sales figures of what we 'may' earn, told how we would be instructors before the year interest period was out, and thrown cash back offers once qualifying!!! They didn't mention to possibility of not qualifying, the high fees, etc. One person asked how reasonable it was to expect a full diary and the salesman just laughed and said what a huge company Red was and how busy they were. The whole thing was a setup. We were encouraged to make a quick decision with limited offers and I was offered a 'free' assessment which I took up. It involved a half hour drive followed by another pushy sales pitch and more deadlines. He was so desperate to get me to sign up and not listening at all to what I had to say. Every doubt I had was quickly pushed aside but I left without signing as I didn't think it was right.
Good decision!
Thanks to all those people who posted such useful stuff on the RED scam.I was ready to go for an interview next week but all this information has changed my mind,
Thanks to all those people who posted such useful stuff on the RED scam.I was ready to go for an interview next week but all this information has changed my mind,
my husband has signed up and had first lesson - how do we get out of this ?
I believe there is a group on Facebook called something like AntiRed.
Red will train him and he can qualify but he will have to put a tremendous amount of work in himself. No Driving instructor course is a guaranteed pass course so what Red have told you about how easy it will be and how long it will take is probably crap.
If he can't get out of it then the only other option is to work through it all. Be warned that he will have to chase Red for his lessons. They will not contact you to organise lessons and you need to be aggressive to get them to do their bit. The training is there but most of the work has to be done yourself if you are dealing with any driving instructor trainer.
Good Luck.
My name is Graham,I was with First Class Driving school.Reading all your comments ,this is the school for you all.They supplied the car you supply the fuel.they supply the pupils you teach.they want ten pounds per pupil per hour,they charge twenty pounds per lesson,my worst day i had 5 lessons my best was 12 a day.the average was 8 or 9.the more you want the more they gave you.very good girls on the desk.each instructor had thier own girl that answered the phone so it seemed personal.it was brilliant the only thing was that i failed my part 3 test even though i had a good pass rate of 75% but i couldn't do the roleplay.just give them a ring and tell them you see it written on this site how good they are.believe me when or if i start to do it all over again i will go to them.remember the prices i gave were for 3 years ago.i only noticed this site because i was thinking of doing it all over again.remember the money is good if you are willing to work.remember 10 lessons a day with 15 mins between each lesson is a long day.they get thier money from you by 1 week in advance.then the next week you keep what you earn and bank the rest ,it is rearly easy.you only have to ring them and they will fill you in.trust me.you will not belive it.i am bored working in a warehouse at the moment ,so ,i might take it up again.see you on the street one day.graham.
Thank you Graham, proprietor of First Class Driving School.
you can ring them or me if you want i do not work for them any more.i failed my part 3 three times.then joined an agency working in a warehouse called panalpina in staines.i was giving you how it was.ring them and check my name to them was graham r.on thier records.ask for glenn or mel .if they remember me.i have no reason to lie.it was that i was reading all of the comments on this page and thought i would give you all my opinion.it is up to you if you do not believe me or not .my number is 07944645506.
you can go on thier site and see all who are involed in the running of the school anyway.the owners name is peter.mel 2nd in charge ,glenn ran accounts.check it out.and then please wright here what you find out.so then anyone reading this page can see that i am telling the truth.and not frighten them off.
So they had you working your backside off on a trainee licence and didn't have you doing the necessary training to bring you up to standard.
What then was the point of you having a trainee licence if you weren't using it as practice towards passing your Part3? Sounds like they were just interested in making money out of you rather than getting you qualified.
I was also being trained by them for my part 3.It was no fault of thiers that i failed.I just could not do roleplay.I personally think that the test should be with a real pupil and observed by an examiner.I had a good pass rate.I think not just me but a lot of good instructers failed to make it.it is a shame.can you ring me or give me your number.I am not looking for an argument I am not like that.we can have a sensible talk about it all and what ever you ask me i will be as honest as i can. I know it seems that they were just out to make money.but aren't we all.in this day and age.because if you don't, someone else will.but remember if they put you out there to earn money for them you are earning as well.you can ring the instructors direct and ask them.if you like.they can't alllie.
If you can't do roleplay and you have been told to book your part 3 then that is your trainers fault, not yours. You have been sent to see your SE(ADI) before you were ready or not advised that you needed more preparation. How many mock part 3's did they give you? did they do a mock with a different trainer? Did YOU treat your trainee licence as training or work?
I already know the answer because I've been there and done it all.
I have read all of these entries with great interest.I wanted to add to the mix if i could. I trained with BSM. Not mnany people do, probably because theybare not as forceful with their mnarketing as Red.BSM pass rate at Part 1,2 and 3 is 50% above Instructor college - and cost me around 35% less...no brainer. Most inst college trainees actually take up a BSM or AA Franchise to learn with a reputable company. |I did that and have therefore learnt how to run a sound business. Would i stay with a large company franchise? no. Would i recommend learning my trade with them? yes. remember the old phrase - you will never get rich working for someone else. Learn your trade then work for yourself. Final point - avoid RED like the plague - all industry evidence supports what s echoed on this site. Hope this helps someone out there.
I trained with the Big Sausage Machine too. They were actually very good and I can recommend their training side but you have to be careful that if you take on a trainee licence you do actually use it as a chance to practice what you have been taught and not solely as a chance to earn cash. They are too expensive to stay with once qualified though and their change of cars makes them much less attractive.
Hi all. I have just spent the last 2 years training as a chef. I can't get any work and have been unemployed since Xmas. I was taken in by the red scam but so far i have only got info. i have not signed anything and i have not been for any interviews.
I have however, been reading very very closely all the posts on here and I'd like to know honestly (no bull shit) if the AA are any good?
I'm seriously considering going with them for a franchise. Xmas is looming and so is my girl friends birthday. I need a job and the AA don't operate in my area at the moment. I quite like the AA's offer of a second car for a family member (note I'd be using it when I'm not teaching). My girl friend is getting lessons from BSM and she says her instructor is good. I'm going to try and have a chat with him the next time she's on her lesson to see what he has to say. My biggest problem is that there are 5 people who operate in my area as independents and I'm not sure i want to speak to any of them (one of them taught me to drive) because i don't want them to think I'm trying to take there business away from them and also because i don't want them to hate me!
It really does sound like red are a bad breed. I'm well and truly going to stay clear of that lot.
Thanks all
Stuart from Angus Scotland
Instructor training is not a safe bet. It is a terrific job once qualified but the chances of qualifying are remote. You do not need to go with any company to begin with. Have a look at the SQUIDOO website.
Copy and paste this link into your browser;
http://www.squidoo.com/driving_instructors
Good luck.
I am thinking about starting with red, and some of the stuff sounds scary, yet most of the people slagging them off are ADI's, this also sounds very much like people protecting thier jobs or trying to keep a bigger piece of the pie. Sorry but if all these driving schools are such rubbish how come some of you who say new commers should think of some other line, are still driving instructors and have been for 11 years?? Are you maybe just hoping to stop as many people as possible from becoming driving instructors in hope that you wont loose business? I thinks :-)
If you want to instruct, that's fine mate you go for it but you need to be aware of certain things. You need to be aware that an established ADI will have people calling him or her up out of the blue with work (if they are any good) because they will be recommended by former pupils. A new PDI or ADI will not have that and so will be dependent just on the work they get from their driving school. Some schools can provide work and some can't. Very often a driving instructor trainer will not even WANT to keep people on after they have qualified because they don't make anything like as much money out of a working instructor as they do out of selling a driving instructor course.
It's really simple; They want your money to train you as an instructor but it is better for them if you fail because then they don't have to give any of that money away in training costs. They can afford to advertise on TV because of all that money they get from people who fail early on in the course. They therefore only have to train a few people to ADI standard.
Why do you think they want the entire course fee paid before you start? It's so that they then have the money and even if you fail early on they get to keep it. All of it. If you go to a trainer who takes payment on a pay by the hour basis or who you pay for each individual part then you are protecting yourself financially against losing the entire course fees. If you fail early on then you only pay for what you have done.
Get it?
PS, Are you Red?
I'm having second thoughts now! I really want to do this but at the same time i don't want to end up in loads of debt and up the creek without a paddle.
Some advice would be helpful not just shed loads of web pages to read. i need to decide by Friday 28th Aug.
Cheers
If you really want to instruct, do it.Do it because you want to do the job, not because you want to earn the £30,000 and have a nice easy job sat on your backside and talking your way through the working day.
You do not need to sign up with any company to do the whole course. You can do part 1 (theory) on your own. It will cost you a few quid for books and the 'Driving Test Success' CD but other than that it is down to hard work.
For Part 2 you can take the occasional lesson from any reputable ADI who can help you get to Part 2 standard. Practice hard in between sessions and you can reach Part 2 standard in no time.
Part 3 is where you will really need to work hard. search around for a good ADI trainer in your area (Ask lots of established instructors who they trained with) and put the work in. Only take the tests when your trainers tell you to and when you are confident.
Whatever you do, don't pay for a full course up front and don't go into debt for a course. be realistic about the chances of qualifying and do lots of research.
Look at the squidoo website about becoming a driving instructor.
I'm currently training with RED, I joined up because I wanted to teach people to drive not to earn £30k. Im 5 months in now and about to take my part 2 in a few weeks. As with anything you need to be prepared to put the work into it, a lot of practice and hard work. Yeah RED are a bit slow getting in to the lessons but I can honestly say once your in the lessons the instructors are fantastic and give 110%.
I've seen some people in my classroom lessons who seem to think they can sign up and pass in months but alot of it is down to people not putting the effort in as with anything people sign up seeing the £30k and think easy!! When I signed up I knew RED is a business and i'm their source of income and i'm ok with that cos I know what i'm getting out of it.
Good luck.
Just out of interest, what was it that prompted you to go with a company that insists on paying the whole fee up front when there are companies who offer schemes where you can pay for each part individually?
Wil you feel exposed financially if you don't pass part 2?
I knew what I was signing up for and I know the risks. But I have good support from the instructors and wont do the test if I dont feel i'm ready. Yeah if I were to fail the test 3 times I woud be gutted but I would not blame RED for me failing. They do standby you and will retrain you until you pass. Talked to people who have failed part 3 and re started training with RED.
With regards to the fee I know it has to be paid at the end of the 12 months so I put provisions in place I've not relyed on the thought that I'll have passed by then so it'll be easy to pay off.
You sound like a poster called Kevin from York who posted ages ago on UKADI saying pretty much the same things. The pattern of words and the language used is very similar. Don't get me wrong, you are saying the right things and if you are actually genuine I wish you all the best but your writing style is uncannily similar and the same sort of post does appear on this site and others from time to time. I don't know if you are for real or not but given your willingness to participate in this forum and the lousy pass rates for the ADI exams wouldn't it be strange if you were in the tiny minority who qualify?
Almost like an advertisement.
I'm not Kevin from York.
I do hope I am one of the minority that do pass.
All I wanted to do is say I dont agree with everything RED do with regards to their recruitment process and think they should screen people more before getting them to sign up. But I can honestly say that their training is good and everyone I speak to at the collage is happy with the process and I've never heard any one in the collage complain.
My personal opinion is that people who complain about it are the people who signed up with their eyes closed and thought it would be a walk in the park. Its alot of work and you have to be committed to it. I thought about been an instructor for about 5 years before joinging RED and spoke to ADI's (not linked to RED) to make sure it was the right decision / career for me.
Rob
I didn't think you actually WERE Kevin from York. I didn't think anyone was Kevin from York because he was obviously a made up character.
You do write like him though.
The strange thing is that if you are happy with your training and you have no co,plaints then why have you ended up accidentally arriving at this site.
I think you are a Red trainer/PR.
I didnt come looking for this site, only opened it as it was titled 'red driving school franchise' and I was natually interested as i'm training with them.
I dont work for RED.
I just (like everyone else) wanted to put my two pence in.
Why is everyone bitching about red they arn't making any one sign up!
If you sign up pay the fee then decide for what ever reason its not for you, dont moan and try and get ur money back.
Just seems like loads of people moaning.
They aren't making anyone sign up?????? Have you not read any of the blogs?
RED is run by salesmen (highly dodgy used car salesmen)to try and get as many people to sign up as possible, knowing they do not have enough instructors and totally conning people into taking out the £3,700 loan and then when, after a year, they are still not qualified, people don't owe £3,700 but almost double that!
They are preying on people who have suffered redundancies owing to this drastic economic climate - why else are they advertising on TV with the promise of earning a big salary with hours to suit, hours to suit???
Read this from the beginning and if you have any common sense you will revise your opinion........
Anyone reading this, do not join RED!
who's been forced to sign up? its a decision the pupil makes RED dont sign the agreement for you!
It's a decision the pupil makes after being fed coffee and bullshit by Red.
They tell them their driving is ace and they will pass allthe exams easily. They don't tell them that the exams are bloody hard work and that they probably (90% chance)won't qualify at all. They will still have to pay all the money if they go with Red. Why not go with a company that let's you pay as you go? Because Red know you probably won't get near the last part of the course, thats why!
Exactly and, as I wrote months ago on this blog, when I went for the initial 'interview' I asked what the pass rate with RED was and I was told 99%. They said people don't fail and that they had so much work and in less than 3 months I would be earning £36k, as a trainee. The loan was also massively hyped up.
Hopfully we will hear of some successful court cases soon.
I signed up with RED in March after being given the RED sales pitch. I had lot sof questions for the salesman and all of my questions were answered honestly. He told me that the pass rate was on 30%, he told me that if the loan was not paid back after 12 months it would double, he told me that my driving was of the highest standard and that, because of previous driver training, I might struggle to pass the Hazard Perception part of the Theory test (I failed on my first attempt!), he said that I would pass the part 2 test (I passed 1st time last week), and he said that to pass part 3 I would have to put a hell of a lot of hard work in. I start my part 3 training next week and cannot wait for it to start as I am enjoying every minute.
But this is not for everyone. I believe to be a successful ADI you have to be a certain type of person - not everyone can be a lawyer and defend criminals they believe to be guilty, not everyone can sit on the end of a phone all day dealing with angry customer's complaints, so not everyone will qualify to be an ADI.
Having said all this I have had complaints with RED. Their training booking system appears to be based on a "those who really want it and pester us" get the lessons, whereas those who just bimble along thinking that it will all be handed on a plate and then complain when their loan doubles after 12 months, tend to get nothing. It is all about what you are prepared to put in.
RED did not explain that the training would be done on a 2-1 basis. At first I thought that this was a con but, having had my 5 (4 hour) lessons, I learned more by analysing the other PDI than I did by driving myself and would suggest that this was an excellent way to learn.
I was told that I could pass within 4-6 months. I would have to say that this is nigh impossible as it takes 3 months at least to do the initial paper stuff (CRB check and register as a PDI etc..), and the part 3 training is a minimum of 6 weeks.
My wife is also very realistic and constantly asks me questions about RED's franchise contract. I haven't signed up to RED's franchise yet, I have only signed up for their excellent trainers to get me through the course. I will worry more about franchises once I am an ADI, and I will look into them as deeply as I looked into RED's training package.
Paying for training up front is a gamble, I agree, but what has not been mentioned before when other bloggers have been discussing the merits of "pay-as-you-go" training is the cost of the tests and the ADI certificate. These are all included in the RED training fee, so, along with the obvious reality that RED were not going to go bust with my money, it made sense to me to pay in advance.
I am 110% comitted to becoming an ADI and expect to be qualified before the end of October, which will be 7 months since I signed up - not bad when you think I wasted 2 weeks of that time retaking my Part 1 test, but I have had to be constantly pro-active, ringing up regularly to see if anyone had cancelled a lesson, re-arranging my Part 2 test on the DSA website 3 times in order to get it a month earlier than the first date they gave me.
I am not a RED employee, nor do I agree with everything they say or do, but it was my choice to sign up with them and, should I fail and lose my money, that will be solely down to me.
There seem to be a lot of bloggers on here who are simply "boo-boys" and only appear to want to put down RED. All I have to say about them is that everyone is entitled to their opinion and should be allowed to air it freely.
My experience so far with RED is that they have not been totally up front and accurate about everything in their sales pitch, but they certainly did not con, or deceive me into signing a contract.
My advice is to ask the right questions when interviewing training schools (the DSA publish a list of suggested questions to ask), and if you don't think that a particular school is right, or you think they are over-selling themselves, don't sign up! It's your money, spend it wisely.
The BBC's Dominic Littlewood is interested in hearing your stories about driving instructor courses and any other problems you've had.
Do you feel as though you've been ripped off by a company?
If you need Dom's help please contact dom@flametv.co.uk or call 0207 598 7210
Anonymous thanks for your honest post about your experiences, I hope it helps some of those who truly want to be an ADI, and haven't just been persuaded by a TV advert.
I taught people to drive for nearly twenty years and became a grade six instructor. Beware of Franchises. Remember that franchise companies are there to make money for themselves and/or their investors. If franchise fees are (circa)£300 per week, at (say) £25.00 per lesson that means your first fifteen hours are dedicated to paying off your franchise. At least 1.5, or £100 per week lessons will be dedicated to paying for your fuel and expenses for the day. The average mortgage payment per week in the UK is £130 take out Utility costs (phone electricity etc) of £20 minimum. That comes to £550 per week or, if you take a two week holiday each year (not calculated in this run down) that comes to £27,500. so out of the so-called £30,000 p.a you still need to make another £2,500.
Therefore you need to carry out an average of 24 lessons each week. Add to your lesson time travelling from pupil to pupil of (say) 18 hours per week for which you have to pay for yourself. Even at the very least to make the scheme viable you have to be working a forty-two hour week. This means you income (not your wage) is just over £13 per hour. The income tax you pay will be assessed on your income minus the usual expenses not the wage you can afford to take out for yourself, which as we have seen amounts to less than £150 per week. These are very rough calculations designed not to be mathematically perfect but to encourage people to think things through before commitment. Take any agreement to a solicitor before signing and take the advice you are paying for.
Go with Bill Plant they are much cheaper than RED and have started advertising on ITV1 for new pupils. They only charge £169 per week, I am with them and I get as many pupils as I can cope with..
Hi, Just to add to the sensible comments many have made here, I wanted to add my tuppance worth... Am a disabled person, but no restrictions on my licence. Wanted to train to be ADI so I could perhaps help other disabled people or dyslexic people to learn to drive. Now, I never expected the training to be a walk in the park, but have been studying something else for the last 18 months, so I had kind of proved to myself that I could succeed. Again, not wanting to earn mega money, just a sensible wage, perhaps working for 30-35 hours a week, eventually helping disabled people, maybe with extra training on my part. I attended RED's what-was-supposed-to-be-a-one-to-one informal chat, and found myself in a seminar with lots of others. Now, I will have to make up fictional places and people here, to protect everyone's identity, but, Ohhh, Lord, the person 'selling' this wonderful new career (foolpoof), let's call her Helga.. I have never seen such drama, dreadful acting, complimenting the group, even telling us she loved us all. At one stage I nearly fell for it, (only nearly), but I won't go in to something with my eyes wide shut, I asked questions. I made a nuicance of myself. I said that I WILL take my time IF I decide to train... (Ohhhh!! [[Shudder]]..."But Drew, I'm in the business of gimving, YES, GIVING people the most lucrative career, and a job that is SO easy! "Yes, well I'll be the judge of that"... Booked my "Test-Ride" with a trainer, and then cancelled a couple of days later, as the whole thing was just so so tacky, surreal. The Red "Actor"... I honestly can't believe how anyone else in the room would have bought the training, signed on the dotted line, etc., but many were hooked, young guys, older guys (probably ADIs under cover)! Anyway, phoned RED's office to kindly ask them to cancel (due to personal circumstances) an the phone operator replied, even though I was apologetic, "Right, fine, Goodbye.... Clink..."
For goodness sake, all the people here who have been burned by this horrible money grabbing, let's really get the word out and lets see who the legitimate companies are and hopefully we can get some common sense back into an industry, where, to be frank, you have to want to help people, teach them, equip them, etc. BTW, thanks those who have said about doing parts 1 and 2 yourself, I may well do that, and if I don't do well, maybe I'm not cut out for it.
I took out an interest free loan in Jan 09 with Barclays for an intensive ADI course with Redcost £4200 after Jan 2010 in excess of £7000. The salesperson Tracy from Bristol said laughingly only way out of this contract is to die or heart attack. Had heart attack in April 09 before course had to cancel. Further heart problems in Oct 09 have tried to get loan repaid to Barclays as I am unable to do the course I cant concentrate and my nerve gone. Redcars attitude is tough luck no cash back Course kept open indefinatly lived on sickpay £64 PW since april still of work will probably file for bankruptcy Jan 2010. LEAVE WELL ALONE
Do you know how many people simply stop paying organisations like RED?
While this is not the wisest way to get out of their clutches, it is understandable.
I have already illustrated a breakdown of the cost of signing up with these people. Quickly, common sense will tell you that £30,000 TURNOVER is not your income. If you pay £4000.00 back over one year, £300 a week franchise fees will bring the payout to £19,600, £2000 a year for fuel, and approximately £1000 for food (because you will soon find the disadvantages of carrying sandwiches etc), £1000 per year (approx NI contributions)and possibly £3000.00 to put aside for income tax. (Check this sum:4000+15,600+2000+1000+1000+3000=£26,600, 30,000 - 23600 = £6,400 profit). This assumes that sufficient lessons will be directed towards your diary at £25 per lesson this would mean you would have to guarantee to have a minimum average 24 lessons per week if you want to have 3 weeks off during the year for holidays and Christmas - you won't afford to be ill!
Take the franchise agreement to a solicitor who specialises in this sort of thing if the maths are ok - DO NOT LET RED OR ANY ORGANISATION PERSUADE YOU TO SIGN WITHOUT TAKING THIS STEP!!! when and if the lawyer says don't touch it with a barge pole take his/her advice.
Talk to other people, search the web for people who have experienced the same situation and remember the old saying caveat emptor - let the buyer beware.
I did twenty years as a driving instructor, the last five years at grade six. I saw it all in that time. The bankruptcy figures for driving instructors are very high.
I had been considering this for a few years before I signed up with Red after listening to their sales pitch which I knew sounded too good to be true (I had also had an interview with BSM). I talked it over with the wife and decided to go for it.
I didn't for one minute believe most of what they were telling me regarding earnings/customers but what I did feel that they had a good support structure in place to help me.
This has proven to be the case - the trainers I have had have all been first class and instantly put me at ease.
I am now going through my part 3 training and have considered taking the trainee licence but as I am still in full time employment and intend to continue doing so I am not sure if it would be worthwhile going down that route.
By the way before anyone accuses me off being a 'homer' - I found this blog by typing trainee franchise into google - absolutely nothing to do with RED - try it for yourself.
I can understand people's frustrations at this not being the proverbial 'pot of gold' they had hoped for but personally I want to be the best I can at this with the hope I can have a reasonable business out of it in the years to come.
Hi,
It can work out. Nobody is saying it can't and the job itself is a great way to earn a living as well as being something different to the norm.
The problem is not people like you. The problem is people who aren't suited to the job and in some cases who would rather be doing something else looking at this as an easy option. Instructor training companies play on this and try to get people to part with their money without spelling out just how hard a slog it can be. You don't sound like someone who would be put off easily or someone who doesn't research things properly. You will probably do well if that is how you are. Go for it and good luck. I mean that.
But also have a think about all those people who aren't as switched on as you are and fall prey to the sales spiel. I think the Instructor training companies are the ones who know the score and should be responsible enough to explain that to their customers before taking the money. You didn't believe the rubbish about earnings and work levels but some gullible people will and it is so preventable.
Hi,
I posted a comment a couple of months ago stating the pros and cons of RED Driving School and RED Driver Training.
2 weeks ago I passed my part 3 test and am now have my green badge. It took me a total of 9 months and did not take the option of a pink licence.
Now, don't be fooled into thinking that you could do the same as me. Prior to starting my training I had been a very highly trained driver for 27 years. This has held me in good stead because the key to passing part 3 is a full understanding of part 2. If you don't understand what driving is all about, how can you possibly manage to pass that on to pupils?
I have now signed up with RED on their franchise scheme. After a 2 months slow start up on the franchise payments I will be paying £185 per week. When I signed up I was invited to chose which postcodes I wanted to work in and was shown evidence that there were enough pupil enquiries to fill my diary.
RED have, in the main, been honest and up front with me and have supported me with extra tuition whenever needed. They will not take on ADI's in an area where they do not have any customers as they obviously do not want the bad press of ADI's complaining of no pupils etc.
For my franchise fee I get 3 weeks holiday (where I don't have to pay), one of those weeks has to be taken on Xmas week; A brand new Vauxhall Corsa 3 door (the 5 door costs £195 pw) which is fully insured for both me and my wife and also for private use. Servicing etc. is included. I receive 12 months free accountancy service to help me through my first year being self-employed. I receive free marketing which includes posters, business cards and a presentation day at my local shopping centre after 6-8 weeks. RED provide a contact centre for me and my pupils which is collted on a new digital online diary system which comes with the mobile phone they provide.
£185 pw seems to me like a good deal for what you get so I signed up and start in a couple of weeks.
What RED don't do is promise that you will pass, nor do they promise you any quantity of pupils, but, if you are a good teacher, and know your stuff in depth, then the pupils you do get will soon pass on to their friends how good you are.
It is the same for anything in this world, you don't get anything for nothing, and round pegs fit in round holes.
Think carefully before you take on the ADI course. Make sure that it is suited to you as a person. I have met a lot of PDIs at RED who will never pass the part 3 test because they are just not the right kind of person. It is not up to RED to psych-analyse all of their potential students, it is up to those people to analyse themselves and not be blinded by the "£30,000 per year" carrot.
Good luck and a happy new year to all.
Hi,
I agree. Not everyone can do what you have done. In reality only a small number of people will be able to do what you have done so congratulations. Here are some posts from Facebook by people who are unhappy.
Emma wrote at 13:58 on 15 December 2009
My hubby signed in Jan 09 and failed part 1 x 4. All efforts to get practical help failed (they offered online support or a trip 30 miles away to do mock tests we already had!!!!) so ever since Oct we have been trying to get out. No avail, feet dragging by both Red & BPF at every turn. We have down the whole Financial Ombudsman letter route/have an appt with the local MP this week/have been in touch with Dom Littlewood (no proper conversation as yet) and are at the end of our tether. Loan due in 3 weeks and then outside the interest free period......do we pay it?? We would go to a solicitor if we thought it would help but the legal advice we had was that a learning contract is much harder than an employment contact to dispute........ Any fresh ideas for us???
Simon wrote at 03:44 on 22 December 2009
im on a trainee licence, and because i have not been given enough work to pay the £275 franchise fee every week, ive fallen behind, as if thats not bad enough, now they are telling me they wont give me priority anymore to get me on my feet until i pay it back, catch 22???? how can i pay them if they wont give me pupils, i mean thats what ive been paying the franchise fee for isnt it?
Su wrote at 06:28 on 22 December 2009
dom@flametv.co.uk
020 7598 7210
they cant help if you dont tell them your story
contact kit or jules
Happy New Year.
There is a mismatch in the figures given above re franchise fees. Could it be that one person is paying the flat franchise fee and the other is paying the franchise fee plus paying back the loan?
Taking a loan to pay for training implies that you can't afford to pay the course fees straight out in the first place so why do training companies offer loans when it is obvious that anyone who does go as far as starting up on a franchise will have to pay the loan off at the same time as paying a large weekly franchise fee?
The reason they offer loans is obvious, once they have your name on the dotted line you are caught hook, line and sinker. If you can't pay the franchise fee when you start work who cares, they will get their money out of you one way or another and there will be another mug along in no time at all.
The bottom line? Easy, DON'T TAKE OUT A LOAN TO PAY FOR TRAINING THAT PROBABLY ISN'T GOING TO LEAD TO QUALIFICATION AND WILL LEAVE YOU IN DEBT IF IT ALL GOES WRONG.
Also, if you shop around you can easily find companies who are less expensive than RED and probably with a much better reputation. Best bet is to take parts 1,2 & 3 on their own rather than get locked into a particular company or course.
After over twenty years as an ADI the last few at grade six level, I have seen many people simply walk away from a franchise agreement.
If you feel your franchise provider is not keeping their side of the bargain see a lawyer and sue for the return of all fees.
If more victims of unfair contract do this, the less these companies will get away with it.
I have said before NEVER SIGN ANY AGREEMENT THAT IS GOING TO AFFECT YOUR FUTURE AND YOUR FAMILY'S FUTURE WITHOUT SEEING A LAWYER. The lawyer may charge you between £50 and £100 - that is nothing compared with an alleged £4000 training fee and an exorbitant franchise fee.
Driving instructor schools should be licenced by the DSA, they are certainly subject to trading standards legislation. It is your duty to remember the warning caveat emptor, let the buyer beware.
Hi,
As stated above, I will be paying £185 per week (actually just gone up to £189.02 because of the VAT increase!) but will actually pay nothing for the first 4 weeks. The £285 that the person is paying is for a 6 month franchise on a training licence. I was always told that the training licence was not something that you can make money with and is solely there to allow practice with real students.
I looked into the training licence and found that there was no evidence that it helped you pass your part 3 test, so I didn't take that option.
As stated previously, do your research and fully understand what you are getting into before signing anything. There is nothing to stop people from finding a private ADI instructor and paying them by the lesson. It may take a while to pass all 3 parts but it will be worth it.
Happy New Year to all.
Look at the percentage of people who actually qualify and base your judgements on that. There needs to be an understanding that no company is in business to get you through the examination process, they are in business to make money out of you. If that is through training fees should you be unsuccessful or through franchise fees should you make the grade is a side issue.
You are there to make them profitable.
Taking the 'pay as you go' option gives you control and doesn't lock you in to any particular trainer or company. Even if it doesn't work out for you no-one can then call you a MUG at the end of it all.
Pay the full fee up front and it can be very different.
Pay for the training by means of the loan option and it's even worse!
hi i am a adi i started on july 2009 as a pdi and i have done my traning private i past all the test first time all in with book every think test traning i have spend about 1500 if any want to be instructor do it like i have done dont pay 3500 its too much its easy not diffucult any one need help add me m_a2005@hotmail.co.uk now i m looking a franchise the red only the cheapest one i have seen but they do contract for 12 months i m not sure they give u people to feel your diary any one with franchise with the red at the moment do they supply people to fill your diary ?
Franchising can be a great way to get started in this business if you don't feel confident enough to start out on your own but if you are tied to a contract for 12 months it doesn't matter to them if you have enough pupils or not. You are then contracted to pay them a franchise fee EVERY WEEK for the next year whether you are earning or not.
My honest advice would be to steer clear of ANY franchise with a notice period of more than a month which is reasonable. A 12 month contract is totally unreasonable and unfair.
What if you run out of work or maybe it snows for 3 weeks and you can't work?
AA has a notice period of 1 month, weekly fee of about £210 but you still have to pay £30 for each learner driver introduced to you even if they only take one driving lesson!
Franchises are not designed to benefit the instructor, rather the driving school that owns them.
thanx for reply thats what i think now i have decide to go with one of the local school with headboard frnachesi for 88 pound no contract i m gonna use my own car aa to expencive and they charge 40 pound for each pupil 225 pound for juct diesel car i can get the car finance 225 pound for a month all rip off,red contract for 12 month too much if they dont give pupils than u have to pay from your pocket
I trained with red some of the training good and some not so good but i passed all 3 test 1st time, im still with red it cost £189 per you get car insurance for me and wife all servicing and tyres, since xmas 09 i have had 12 pupils sent to me. When you enter in to the training be prepared its hard work and you might fail, many people i meant when training blamed everyone but them selfs for failing a test, before you start check the small print and make sure you want to do this for a living, its not easy money
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